Tony Simotes Part Three

Act Two with Berkshire Theatre Group

By: Charles Giuliano - May 02, 2015

Tony Simotes with his friend Olympia Dukakis. Charles Giuliano photos.

The idea of working with Kate Maguire popped up while talking with the actor Rocco Sisto.

Tony reflected on the performance of Richard III by John Douglas Thompson.

Tony and John.

John and Olympia during the opening for Mother Courage.

Charles Giuliano What changes and adjustments do you anticipate in the transition from being the artist director of Shakespeare & Company to the position of second in command for the Berkshire Theatre Group?

Tony Simotes When I was at S&Co. we were running in rep. You don't have to get to the Berkshires in June for a show that is still running in August. There was a benefit to that for the audience. There was also cost in keeping a company of actors together, housing them and moving sets back and forth. There was expense with that. Now at Berkshire Theatre Group I have to get used to the other model. Actors come in and out.

This summer will be about watching, listening and seeing how it all works.

CG Will you be involved with management and fundraising?

TS I'm already engaged with that.

At.\ S&Co. I had 30 plus acres to manage. It was a lot to take care of but all in one place. At BTG we have two campuses which aren't next door to each other. Now there is a situation when Kate and I can literally be in two places at once. So senior management is always right there on the ground. We'll be able to meet donors and talk to the audience. We can do things in a way that we never lose sight of the product and what's happening.

CG There is an ever increased emphasis on regional theatres taking shows to Broadway. There are currently three Berkshire generated shows nominated for multiple awards in the 2015 Tonys. That includes "On the Town" from Barrington Stage and two from Williamstown "Elephant Man" and "The Visit." On your watch S&Co. produced "Satchmo At the Waldorf" which has been seen in multiple venues and will continue to be produced. Of the four equity companies in the Berkshires it seems that BTG is the only that has not done this.

TS They have in the past but not recently.

CG It would seem that Karen Allen is bankable.

TS That's what I think. In terms of new work going to New York I have no idea but I would guess. Just like at S&Co. we were trying to stabilize. We were trying to understand how the company went from being primarily an outdoor venue to indoor theaters. That transition took a long time for the company to understand. For the Berkshire Theatre Festival and the Colonial the two organizations are still trying to understand how they come together. They have been good about trying to weave together the productions and energy of the staff. Before that they could ever say let's take this show and go someplace with it.

CG How are the finances?

TS I think they're in pretty good shape. Is there debt? There always is. Nobody is free of debt. That $5 million gift from the Feigenbaum Foundation is crucial to stabilization. It will allow us to bring in more donors and more support.

(The Foundation, founded by Armand and the late Donald Feigenbaum, has pledged a ten-year endowment of up to $5 million. “The endowment will create the Feigenbaum Center for the Performing Arts at The Colonial Theatre and develop educational initiatives there,” Ruth Blodgett, BTG Board President, said. “The Feigenbaum brothers and their foundation always acknowledged the importance of the performing arts and education to the Pittsfield and Berkshire community,” Emil George, Feigenbaum Foundation President, said. “The Colonial Theatre is a treasure historically and should be sustained for future generations.” The Feigenbaum Foundation will donate $500,000 a year to a endowment for BTG during the next ten years. No income from endowment investments or interest may be used until the fund reaches $5 million.)

CG You have stated that Kate will have the final say on programming and that you will advise her.

TC That's correct.

CG Where does Eric Hill come into the equation? (Maguire's husband and a director for the company.) He wants to do his plays and you want to do yours. So there are in fact three people involved in those decisions. It this a question of musical chairs when the music stops?

TS Let's go back. When you start off as a drummer you provide the beat. You're not the melody. You're what drives it. From there becoming an actor you support the vision of the director and the playwright. When you become a fight choreographer it entails still dealing with aspects of the director's vision, deal with the actors, and putting it together in a workable solution. Then you become the director. Now you have the scope to see where you actually want it to go. Then to become the artistic director I had the ultimate say.

The way I see it is that I have spent the majority of my life working to support ideas and being a team player. My asset to BTG is that I can be a person who can jest, cajole, negotiate, capitulate but also can be there to collaborate.

CG There is another way of looking at this. You have three distinct individuals with unique and different visions. Tony has specific interests and contacts. You have a project and certain actors in mind. So an approach might be that's Tony's slot. Or Eric's. Or Kate's.

This is along the lines of how you worked to developed the Terry Teachout play "Satchmo at the Waldorf." You saw through all phases of that project, from the initial idea suggested by Elizabeth Aspenlieder, through ultimately partnering with Long Wharf. You demonstrated the ability to see a new work through to the point of sending it to other theatres. Isn't that a very special ability that you bring to BTG in terms of creating new work?

TS Right now Kate has talked to me about directing next year. The idea is that I would direct one Main Stage primary production every year. You're right. There's a project that I've already started to work with. It's an artist on the outside. It's flowing an idea that I have. It might be really fascinating. I have to be off the record here. (A classic reimagined).

CG (Resuming after an interval) How old are you and how long do you want to keep going?

TS I'm 64 and expect to keep going at least for another ten years.

CG That gets you to my age and I'm still hanging in. I read a story today that Michael Bloomberg, who is 73, is considering moving to London and running for Mayor.

TS I don't want to do that.

CG You had a life threatening health incident (cancer of the throat). What I respect is that you are making a decision to follow through on having an impact at the height of your power and insight. At this point in our lives time becomes precious and we want to use it judiciously. I am sure your health issues have resulted in looking closely at and weighing options.

TS That's right. I've had a lot of struggles. My sister died of cancer just a few years ago. She struggled for seven years. I saw her struggle and I asked her about it. She said "I just put my face into the wind Tony and I go forward." Her courage and the way she fought was so important to me. My brother has leukemia. From a motorcycle accident he's paralyzed from the waist down. I lost my nephew a few years ago to congestive heart failure. He was 38. Two weeks ago I lost my ex sister in law to throat cancer.

It's so delicate. It's so fragile. For me I feel the blessing of every day to be here. To work and have a positive impact on who we are as human beings. To make this life better. To help to understand the mystery. To give us a moment of peace, joy, introspection. All of the things that are positive because life can be really painful.

CG Does that impact the aesthetic? We chose to laugh or cry. Is it influencing the material you work with?

TC Yes. It's plays with heart. I want to do plays that have some kind of resonance. That can be plays that are funny. You know that I love slapstick. When you do physical comedy it has to be grounded in the great comedians like Charlie Chaplin or Buster Keaton. When you look at that work, it's like what you said earlier about going back to Aristophanes, it's got to be a classic case of comedy. How can we laugh at ourselves and find pleasure when there is so much chaos going on around us.

So I enjoy that part of it as well as when we need to look really deeply at something. Why Othello meant so much to me was because of the domestic violence. It was not about an army but what we do to each other as individuals. Husband and wife and friends.

CG As an artist where are you at this time in your life. Are you doing your best work?

TS I hope so. At this point I think I'm most reflective. Also I'm at my most daring.

CG There's no net.

TS That's correct. Why worry about it. If you face the darkness and pain of what cancer brings and you realize that things are so tenuous at that moment and the pain is so great it's like, why not take risks?

CG Why play safe?

TS When people came up to me in meetings and said "Tony what you're asking us is impossible." I would say "No, I'll tell you what's impossible." I could speak from that point of view.

CG What was impossible?

TS Just something as goofy as scheduling. Like "We'll never be able to do this in that amount of time." I'm like "Really?" They're like "You don't care about the art because you're making this decision." I'm like "Financially I care about the art because I have to make this decision. I care about the art and you can make this work. I know you can."

I've been pressed. Nature, the heavens, pressed me. To me I'm fortunate. I don't know how long I have to live.

CG I don't either. I'm looking at the clock.

TS So, come on. What are we waiting for? Let's do it.

CG I'm publishing my first book of poetry. Some people will tell me that it sucks.

TS You have to tell your own story. Which is why I am interested in play development. I get back to a playwright and say "I don't want to write your story. All I want to do is give you my reflection on what I hear and what I see, thematically, structurally and grammatically on what might work. The story is your story."

In the industry a lot of people who are reviewing are writers themselves. What happens is that they start rewriting the story for the playwright. You don't need to do that. For me I feel like I'm in that place where you are.

CG Are critics of any value? Are there any good ones?

TS The industry is delicate. When someone comes down real hard. The classic case is John Simon. He used to just attack people. I don't find that's criticism that's worthwhile to the artist or the theatre going public. If I look at Pauline Kael reviewing a movie it's real art to be able to see it and encapsulate what that person sees within the project. How it goes against the art itself. You're not taking that play out of context. It's being done in relationship to a season. The journey of that artist as well. You have to try to understand what that company is trying to achieve. Maybe they fall short. But does that mean it's not worthwhile? For me it's how do we encourage the growth of our industry? Without diminishing and degrading what it can be.

CG Have you been hurt by reviews.

TS Oh yeah. Absolutely. Sometimes they get it. OMG they saw what I saw. On another night they had a bad dinner and they're watching the play. It's all subjective. Last summer the opening of "Midsummer" should have been the Gala night. Technically the opening was the next afternoon. It was a classic case of we had never performed in the afternoon. We were coming down from an exceptionally exciting performance the night before. It's just the normal ebb and flow. Was that fair from my point of view as director and producer? No. But it was what was in the schedule. So here we were not performing necessarily our best. There is a natural rhythm. So was it unfortunate? Yeah, but things happen.

CG Did it result in bad reviews?

TS The reviews weren't bad, actually pretty solid, but there were a couple that I took issue with. Because it was Shakespeare, and people had seen it so many times over the course of their lives, here were expectations of certain things. Last year I kind of wanted to blow the play open. When I had the opportunity to do that it wasn't everybody's cup of tea. I thought it was some of my best work.

CG When John Douglas Thompson did "Richard III" for S&Co. there was a strange opening with him lying on his back facing away from the audience while saying "Now is the winter of our discontent." Later I asked him about it and unwisely mentioned the Richard of Lawrence Olivier. I had just read his book which discussed the character. He responded strongly saying that theatre is a living entity and if we don't allow for that why bother to do the plays? He reminded me that there had been many notable interpretations of Richard since Olivier. There was a similar issue for me responding to a very strange production of "Streetcar Named Desire" at Williamstown Theatre Festival. When I discussed my responses with Jessica Hecht who played Blanche she also objected when I compared the WTF production to the paradigm of the Kazan film with the Brando/ Leigh film. There was a familiar discussion of the difference between film and stage. Of course Kazan was a master of both.

The actors reminded me, and the point is well taken, that we must try to see plays on their own terms. As you say for the production of "Midsummer" audiences come to classic works with expectations. Particularly, when as you put it, the intention is to "blow it open" with a fresh interpretation. The audience and critics often don't get it. Mea culpa. But it is dialogues such as this as well as speaking with actors like Thompson and Hecht that have helped me to be more receptive and attentive to what is being performed. Of course, change for the sake of change, doesn't often work so there is a constant balance between classical and contemporary interpretations.

TS Here's the thing. I actually put that "Richard III" together. John Croy staged the show. I was sick at the time and didn't direct. When I saw John on the floor I wasn't happy. I would have said 'no.' But I had played Richard in the very first production I did with Tina (Packer) back at NYU. So I was like, no, that's not where he's starting. But it was John's idea with Croy and they felt very good about it. So you have to go, ok, that's not how I would have done it. Then you see where it goes from there. With each actor you're looking at their inner Richard so to speak. John did a very nice job of that. Now my Richard was completely different. Completely different. Had I been in the rehearsal room I would have been challenging him in terms of how I heard the text. That's what makes any artist come alive on stage. When there are those sparks and you get into discussion with the director. It's exciting to be in the midst of all that. You don't want everything to be as you say safe. If that's the case why not make videotapes and put that up next season as "Streetcar Named Desire."

Many years ago I was teaching a class at Florida State. I had the directors for a day and then I was going into rehearsal. They were working on "Streetcar." I asked them why it was set that way and they answered well that's the way it was written. I said "Yeah but he wrote it as a modern play. He didn't write it as a classic play but rather for his time period. So why don't we update it? Why don't we change the context." They said "Well, you can't do that." I said "Why not." I was so used to working with Shakespeare as a reflection of who you are in the time when you're presenting it. I think that's how people fall down. You're not creating museum pieces. It's your work and your poetry. It's who you are now at 74. You've lived all this life. You're not going to go back and write like a 20-year-old. You have too much life experience.

To me the thing is to open our craft up. Like Olympia (Dukakis) does in her 80's. When she looks at you she doesn't ask the questions of a 35-year-old woman. She asks it as a woman in her 80's. (In her voice) "Tony, what do you want from this moment? What story are you trying to tell Tony?" Then you're put on the spot. You're not just staging a scene. You're creating theatre. Theater comes from that root of Thea. It's the gods.

(Theia or Thea was the Titan goddess of shinning, associated with shinning light, shinning metals or jewels. Her other name Euryphaessa means "wide-shinning" and therefore she was connected with all that is shinning. In Pindar`s Isthmian Odes, Theia is described as the goddess of shining after whom the men honored gold as the most powerful shining object. She was also the goddess of sight, because ancient Greeks believed that eyes emitted beams of light which allowed them to see what they looked upon.)

If that's what it is how can you just treat it as a blocking exercise? You're literally walking into a space that is sacred. You're creating something that is out of the true human spirit.

CG The sense that I get about this new job with BTG is that is comes with multiple tasks and responsibilities. There are administrative and fundraising duties. but overall you are let off the leash.

TS By people who trust me.

CG I am no necessarily compelled to see BTG productions but I will come to enjoy what you produce because it is built on a relationship you have created with audiences.

TS When this came up, for me, it felt like act two. S&Co. got me here then there was the tension at the end of act one. I'm hoping this is a good act two.

CG What happened was beyond your control but in a way it may be an epiphany.

TS It's the best thing that could have happened. I hope that we're sitting here five years from now talking about the success of BTG. We're looking at projects in the pipeline and have been able to make a positive impact on the community. In a way it felt like there was divine intervention in this. It may seem corny but it reminds me of the song from Pinocchio (sings "When you wish upon a star.") I was literally in my kitchen when I said "Wouldn't it be great if I could work with Kate?" The universe brought that about. I had never had a conversation with anybody about it. I was standing there with Rocky Sisto and I had that conversation. Then, literally, it happened.

The contract not showing up on time!

Here's one more thing. The house we are living in was built by Isabella Redfield. The Redfields were instrumental in the growth of Pittsfield. Redfield School was named for Isabella. Her father was one of the bigwigs in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Their brother was the first secretary of commerce in a position created by Woodrow Wilson. They built this house with an elevator because they were growing older and knew they needed help. It's a beautiful old home. We wanted to find out about it so we found her obituary. We also thought there was a ghost in the house.

It turns out that Isabella did die in the house. The obituary mentioned that they were going to close the Colonial Theatre. She led the march to save it. She marched behind a band which she said had been a lifelong dream. The fact that she had a relationship with the Colonial Theater back in the 1930s, to make sure that theater survived, and now I live in her house. It was kindah like Isabella didn't want us to leave. This just gets spookier and spookier. Lucy and I said "Isabella doesn't want us to leave. We still have a job to do here." On so many levels there is a spiritual obligation to remain here. Not just for the community but for ourselves. There's obviously unfinished business here. We left S&Co. in better shape than we found it. This is the chance to begin again. It was a brilliant move for Kate to sweep me up and make this possible. I'm really excited Charles.

Charles Giuliano What changes and adjustments do you anticipate in the transition from being the artist director of Shakespeare & Company to the position of second in command for the Berkshire Theatre Group?

Tony Simotes When I was at S&Co. we were running in rep. You don't have to get to the Berkshires in June for a show that is still running in August. There was a benefit to that for the audience. There was also cost in keeping a company of actors together, housing them and moving sets back and forth. There was expense with that. Now at Berkshire Theatre Group I have to get used to the other model. Actors come in and out.

This summer will be about watching, listening and seeing how it all works.

CG Will you be involved with management and fundraising?

TS I'm already engaged with that.

At S&Co. I had 30 plus acres to manage. It was a lot to take care of but all in one place. At BTG we have two campuses which aren't next door to each other. Now there is a situation when Kate and I can literally be in two places at once. So senior management is always right there on the ground. We'll be able to meet donors and talk to the audience. We can do things in a way that we never lose sight of the product and what's happening.

CG There is an ever increased emphasis on regional theatres taking shows to Broadway. There are currently three Berkshire generated shows nominated for multiple awards in the 2015 Tonys. That includes "On the Town" from Barrington Stage and two from Williamstown "Elephant Man" and "The Visit." On your watch S&Co. produced "Satchmo At the Waldorf" which has been seen in multiple venues and will continue to be produced. Of the four equity companies in the Berkshires it seems that BTG is the only that has not done this.

TS They have in the past but not recently.

CG It would seem that Karen Allen is bankable.

TS That's what I think. In terms of new work going to New York I have no idea but I would guess. Just like at S&Co. we were trying to stabilize. We were trying to understand how the company went from being primarily an outdoor venue to indoor theaters. That transition took a long time for the company to understand. For the Berkshire Theatre Festival and the Colonial the two organizations are still trying to understand how they come together. They have been good about trying to weave together the productions and energy of the staff. Before that they could ever say let's take this show and go someplace with it.

CG How are the finances?

TS I think they're in pretty good shape. Is there debt? There always is. Nobody is free of debt. That $5 million gift from the Feigenbaum Foundation is crucial to stabilization. It will allow us to bring in more donors and more support.

(The Foundation, founded by Armand and the late Donald Feigenbaum, has pledged a ten-year endowment of up to $5 million. “The endowment will create the Feigenbaum Center for the Performing Arts at The Colonial Theatre and develop educational initiatives there,” Ruth Blodgett, BTG Board President, said. “The Feigenbaum brothers and their foundation always acknowledged the importance of the performing arts and education to the Pittsfield and Berkshire community,” Emil George, Feigenbaum Foundation President, said. “The Colonial Theatre is a treasure historically and should be sustained for future generations.” The Feigenbaum Foundation will donate $500,000 a year to a endowment for BTG during the next ten years. No income from endowment investments or interest may be used until the fund reaches $5 million.)

CG You have stated that Kate will have the final say on programming and that you will advise her.

TS That's correct.

CG Where does Eric Hill come into the equation? (Maguire's husband and a director for the company.) He wants to do his plays and you want to do yours. So there are in fact three people involved in those decisions. It this a question of musical chairs when the music stops?

TS Let's go back. When you start off as a drummer you provide the beat. You're not the melody. You're what drives it. From there becoming an actor you support the vision of the director and the playwright. When you become a fight choreographer it entails still dealing with aspects of the director's vision, deal with the actors, and putting it together in a workable solution. Then you become the director. Now you have the scope to see where you actually want it to go. Then to become the artistic director I had the ultimate say.

The way I see it is that I have spent the majority of my life working to support ideas and being a team player. My asset to BTG is that I can be a person who can jest, cajole, negotiate, capitulate but also can be there to collaborate.

CG There is another way of looking at this. You have three distinct individuals with unique and different visions. Tony has specific interests and contacts. You have a project and certain actors in mind. So an approach might be that's Tony's slot. Or Eric's. Or Kate's.

This is along the lines of how you worked to developed the Terry Teachout play "Satchmo at the Waldorf." You saw through all phases of that project, from the initial idea suggested by Elizabeth Aspenlieder, through ultimately partnering with Long Wharf. You demonstrated the ability to see a new work through to the point of sending it to other theatres. Isn't that a very special ability that you bring to BTG in terms of creating new work?

TS Right now Kate has talked to me about directing next year. The idea is that I would direct one Main Stage primary production every year. You're right. There's a project that I've already started to work with. It's an artist on the outside. It's flowing an idea that I have. It might be really fascinating. I have to be off the record here. (A classic reimagined).

CG (Resuming after an interval) How old are you and how long do you want to keep going?

TS I'm 64 and expect to keep going at least for another ten years.

CG That gets you to my age and I'm still hanging in. I read a story today that Michael Bloomberg, who is 73, is considering moving to London and running for Mayor.

TS I don't want to do that.

CG You had a life threatening health incident (cancer of the throat). What I respect is that you are making a decision to follow through on having an impact at the height of your power and insight. At this point in our lives time becomes precious and we want to use it judiciously. I am sure your health issues have resulted in looking closely at and weighing options.

TS That's right. I've had a lot of struggles. My sister died of cancer just a few years ago. She struggled for seven years. I saw her struggle and I asked her about it. She said "I just put my face into the wind Tony and I go forward." Her courage and the way she fought was so important to me. My brother has leukemia. From a motorcycle accident he's paralyzed from the waist down. I lost my nephew a few years ago to congestive heart failure. He was 38. Two weeks ago I lost my ex sister in law to throat cancer.

It's so delicate. It's so fragile. For me I feel the blessing of every day to be here. To work and have a positive impact on who we are as human beings. To make this life better. To help to understand the mystery. To give us a moment of peace, joy, introspection. All of the things that are positive because life can be really painful.

CG Does that impact the aesthetic? We chose to laugh or cry. Is it influencing the material you work with?

TC Yes. It's plays with heart. I want to do plays that have some kind of resonance. That can be plays that are funny. You know that I love slapstick. When you do physical comedy it has to be grounded in the great comedians like Charlie Chaplin or Buster Keaton. When you look at that work, it's like what you said earlier about going back to Aristophanes, it's got to be a classic case of comedy. How can we laugh at ourselves and find pleasure when there is so much chaos going on around us.

So I enjoy that part of it as well as when we need to look really deeply at something. Why Othello meant so much to me was because of the domestic violence. It was not about an army but what we do to each other as individuals. Husband and wife and friends.

CG As an artist where are you at this time in your life. Are you doing your best work?

TS I hope so. At this point I think I'm most reflective. Also I'm at my most daring.

CG There's no net.

TS That's correct. Why worry about it. If you face the darkness and pain of what cancer brings and you realize that things are so tenuous at that moment and the pain is so great it's like, why not take risks?

CG Why play safe?

TS When people came up to me in meetings and said "Tony what you're asking us is impossible." I would say "No, I'll tell you what's impossible." I could speak from that point of view.

CG What was impossible?

TS Just something as goofy as scheduling. Like "We'll never be able to do this in that amount of time." I'm like "Really?" They're like "You don't care about the art because you're making this decision." I'm like "Financially I care about the art because I have to make this decision. I care about the art and you can make this work. I know you can."

I've been pressed. Nature, the heavens, pressed me. To me I'm fortunate. I don't know how long I have to live.

CG I don't either. I'm looking at the clock.

TS So, come on. What are we waiting for? Let's do it.

CG I'm publishing my first book of poetry "Shards of a Life.". Some people will tell me that it sucks.

TS You have to tell your own story n. Which is why I am interested in play development. I get back to a playwright and say "I don't want to write your story. All I want to do is give you my reflection on what I hear and what I see, thematically, structurally and grammatically on what might work. The story is your story."

In the industry a lot of people who are reviewing are writers themselves. What happens is that they start rewriting the story for the playwright. You don't need to do that. For me I feel like I'm in that place where you are.

CG Are critics of any value? Are there any good ones?

TS The industry is delicate. When someone comes down real hard. The classic case is John Simon. He used to just attack people. I don't find that's criticism that's worthwhile to the artist or the theatre going public. If I look at Pauline Kael reviewing a movie it's real art to be able to see it and encapsulate what that person sees within the project. How it goes against the art itself. You're not taking that play out of context. It's being done in relationship to a season. The journey of that artist as well. You have to try to understand what that company is trying to achieve. Maybe they fall short. But does that mean it's not worthwhile? For me it's how do we encourage the growth of our industry? Without diminishing and degrading what it can be.

CG Have you been hurt by reviews.

TS Oh yeah. Absolutely. Sometimes they get it. OMG they saw what I saw. On another night they had a bad dinner and they're watching the play. It's all subjective. Last summer the opening of "Midsummer" should have been the Gala night. Technically the opening was the next afternoon. It was a classic case of we had never performed in the afternoon. We were coming down from an exceptionally exciting performance the night before. It's just the normal ebb and flow. Was that fair from my point of view as director and producer? No. But it was what was in the schedule. So here we were not performing necessarily our best. There is a natural rhythm. So was it unfortunate? Yeah, but things happen.

CG Did it result in bad reviews?

TS The reviews weren't bad, actually pretty solid, but there were a couple that I took issue with. Because it was Shakespeare, and people had seen it so many times over the course of their lives, here were expectations of certain things. Last year I kind of wanted to blow the play open. When I had the opportunity to do that it wasn't everybody's cup of tea. I thought it was some of my best work.

CG When John Douglas Thompson did "Richard III" for S&Co. there was a strange opening with him lying on his back facing away from the audience while saying "Now is the winter of our discontent." Later I asked him about it and unwisely mentioned the Richard of Lawrence Olivier. I had just read his book which discussed the character. He responded strongly saying that theatre is a living entity and if we don't allow for that why bother to do the plays? He reminded me that there had been many notable interpretations of Richard since Olivier. There was a similar issue for me responding to a very strange production of "Streetcar Named Desire" at Williamstown Theatre Festival. When I discussed my responses with Jessica Hecht who played Blanche she also objected when I compared the WTF production to the paradigm of the Kazan film with the Brando/ Leigh film. There was a familiar discussion of the difference between film and stage. Of course Kazan was a master of both.

The actors reminded me, and the point is well taken, that we must try to see plays on their own terms. As you say for the production of "Midsummer" audiences come to classic works with expectations. Particularly, when as you put it, the intention is to "blow it open" with a fresh interpretation. The audience and critics often don't get it. Mea culpa. But it is dialogues such as this as well as speaking with actors like Thompson and Hecht that have helped me to be more receptive and attentive to what is being performed. Of course, change for the sake of change, doesn't often work so there is a constant balance between classical and contemporary interpretations.

TS Here's the thing. I actually put that "Richard III" together. John Croy staged the show. I was sick at the time and didn't direct. When I saw John on the floor I wasn't happy. I would have said 'no.' But I had played Richard in the very first production I did with Tina (Packer) back at NYU. So I was like, no, that's not where he's starting. But it was John's idea with Croy and they felt very good about it. So you have to go, ok, that's not how I would have done it. Then you see where it goes from there. With each actor you're looking at their inner Richard so to speak. John did a very nice job of that. Now my Richard was completely different. Completely different. Had I been in the rehearsal room I would have been challenging him in terms of how I heard the text. That's what makes any artist come alive on stage. When there are those sparks and you get into discussion with the director. It's exciting to be in the midst of all that. You don't want everything to be as you say safe. If that's the case why not make videotapes and put that up next season as "Streetcar Named Desire."

Many years ago, I was teaching a class at Florida State. I had the directors for a day and then I was going into rehearsal. They were working on "Streetcar." I asked them why it was set that way and they answered well that's the way it was written. I said "Yeah but he wrote it as a modern play. He didn't write it as a classic play but rather for his time period. So why don't we update it? Why don't we change the context." They said "Well, you can't do that." I said "Why not." I was so used to working with Shakespeare as a reflection of who you are in the time when you're presenting it. I think that's how people fall down. You're not creating museum pieces. It's your work and your poetry. It's who you are now at 74. You've lived all this life. You're not going to go back and write like a 20-year-old. You have too much life experience.

To me the thing is to open our craft up. Like Olympia (Dukakis) does in her 80's. When she looks at you she doesn't ask the questions of a 35-year-old woman. She asks it as a woman in her 80's. (In her voice) "Tony, what do you want from this moment? What story are you trying to tell Tony?" Then you're put on the spot. You're not just staging a scene. You're creating theatre. Theater comes from that root of Thea. It's the gods.

(Theia or Thea was the Titan goddess of shinning, associated with shinning light, shinning metals or jewels. Her other name Euryphaessa means "wide-shinning" and therefore she was connected with all that is shinning. In Pindar`s Isthmian Odes, Theia is described as the goddess of shining after whom the men honored gold as the most powerful shining object. She was also the goddess of sight, because ancient Greeks believed that eyes emitted beams of light which allowed them to see what they looked upon.)

If that's what it is how can you just treat it as a blocking exercise? You're literally walking into a space that is sacred. You're creating something that is out of the true human spirit.

CG The sense that I get about this new job with BTG is that is comes with multiple tasks and responsibilities. There are administrative and fundraising duties. but overall you are let off the leash.

TS By people who trust me.

CG I am no necessarily compelled to see BTG productions but I will come to enjoy what you produce because it is built on a relationship you have created with audiences.

TS When this came up, for me, it felt like act two. S&Co. got me here then there was the tension at the end of act one. I'm hoping this is a good act two.

CG What happened was beyond your control but in a way it may be an epiphany.

TS It's the best thing that could have happened. I hope that we're sitting here five years from now talking about the success of BTG. We're looking at projects in the pipeline and have been able to make a positive impact on the community. In a way it felt like there was divine intervention in this. It may seem corny but it reminds me of the song from Pinocchio (sings "When you wish upon a star.") I was literally in my kitchen when I said "Wouldn't it be great if I could work with Kate?" The universe brought that about. I had never had a conversation with anybody about it. I was standing there with Rocky Sisto and I had that conversation. Then, literally, it happened.

The contract not showing up on time!

Here's one more thing. The house we are living in was built by Isabella Redfield. The Redfields were instrumental in the growth of Pittsfield. Redfield School was named for Isabella. Her father was one of the bigwigs in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Their brother was the first secretary of commerce in a position created by Woodrow Wilson. They built this house with an elevator because they were growing older and knew they needed help. It's a beautiful old home. We wanted to find out about it so we found her obituary. We also thought there was a ghost in the house.

It turns out that Isabella did die in the house. The obituary mentioned that they were going to close the Colonial Theatre. She led the march to save it. She marched behind a band which she said had been a lifelong dream. The fact that she had a relationship with the Colonial Theater back in the 1930s, to make sure that theater survived, and now I live in her house. It was kindah like Isabella didn't want us to leave. This just gets spookier and spookier. Lucy and I said "Isabella doesn't want us to leave. We still have a job to do here." On so many levels there is a spiritual obligation to remain here. Not just for the community but for ourselves. There's obviously unfinished business here. We left S&Co. in better shape than we found it. This is the chance to begin again. It was a brilliant move for Kate to sweep me up and make this possible. I'm really excited Charles.

Interview Part One.

Interview Part Two.